End Zone VI
Edited by Mar 26, 2002 1:27 pm
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(2770 previous messages)
Being continued...
Just didn't think so soon, except I just read Packrat's post and the comments about the Bucs and Sad Sapp made by Viking Matt Birk. Gotta like guys like Birk for having the guts to speak up like that.
I forgot to finish posting my thoughts on the Super Bowl. So the Bucs have finally made it that far after having been picked to make it for the past five or six years. But they're most likely in for a season ending loss in front of the entire world.
Being a senior citizen, by age and NOT by looks or frame of mind, I tend to favor the older folks. Not only are the Raiders my "other" team, but they are as NFL teams go a bit on the senior end of the scale. You know what is said about enlisted folks in the military (if you've ever read what General Custer had to say about them) and what is said about the elderly. Some may be conjuring up insults now, but that's not what I had in mind. Age and experience cannot be considered a disadvantage...it is an advantage, except maybe in a relay race or something. To cut to the chase...the Raiders will win the Super Bowl because of their age and experience. They might not get another chance. Besides that they have an offense and Tampa Bay does not. The Tampa Bay offense against the Eagles was NOT the real one. It was their day in the sun, so to speak. Did the sun shine that day in Philadelphia? I dunno.
Some predict a close game. I say it will be the Raiders 30 and the Bucs 13. 17, if lucky. Not to take away from the Buc's outstanding defense, but the Raiders defense will rise to the occasion.
GO RAIDERS!!!
That's two posts. This makes three. How far am I behind that prolific poster who goes by the handle ACL???
I just can't let him get too big a lead on me. If I have to I shall resort to SPAM posts again. ;-))
Buzzard...you need any SPAM recipes?
Boomer~~~ I am glad your back... I am tuckered out keeping up the nonsense posts... It may seem easy to the normal football poster but,,, its hard to be this stupid on all subjects,,, to all people... all the time... Though,,, some say I am a natural...
Mark~~~
I can not get any response from the Bike people... I said something like you said... Said I would send the $4,000 to a E-bay account to protect dealings like this,,, and I would bring cash,,, for the rest... No answer... I think they know I am playing with them now... 8^)
Packers to face Chiefs in Hall Of Fame Game NFL.com wire reports
GREEN BAY, Wis. (Jan. 24, 2003) -- The Green Bay Packers will play the Kansas City Chiefs in the annual Pro Football Hall of Fame Game on August 4th in Canton, Ohio.
The Hall exhibition game starts off the preseason schedule.
"As I understand it, the commissioner (Paul Tagliabue) wanted to have the two teams that played in the first Super Bowl," Packers president Bob Harlan said. "I'm very proud, and it's a nice honor for us. I was surprised when I got the call."
The Packers beat the Chiefs 35-10 in Super Bowl I on Jan. 15, 1967, in Los Angeles.
Harlan said the league plans to invite the living members of those teams to this year's Hall of Fame festivities.
Welcome back Boomer!!!
BTW...I'll be rooting for Oakland also...First time for an AFC team...
The thought of Sapp & Me-Shawn with a SuperBowl Ring, and then listening to them...Can't deal with it...
Skol...
Buzzard - Jan 26, 2003 3:08 pm (#2777 of 2927)
Meshaun was quoted in the local papers papers yesterday say he is done talking to the press. No more never again. Says he is gonna be just like Sterling Sharpe. Martin Fennley a local columnist did an article about it. Here is a link to the article.
http://tampatrib.com/Sports/columns/MGA9TVM2DBD.html
Edited by Jan 26, 2003 5:21 pm
ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs ihatethebucs
Leader,
My heartfelt condolances on your personal loss. If there's anything I can do to help you through the adaptation and coping process of the coming 8 months, just let me know.
Leader - Jan 27, 2003 4:40 am (#2780 of 2927)
Edited by Jan 26, 2003 8:42 pm
It was Irene's birthday this week, so following the calamity in Philly I devised a survival plan. A little family gathering..combined Birthday/SB party.
"NFC Championship" T-shirts predominated the attire, far numbering the birthday hats, ballons and horns. My eyes sought the safety of
the beer commercials...and all the bikini clad women. I also think I might take in my first "Alias" show, so compelling were the brief skin-flicks.
The birthday festivities went off nicely as usual and then the dreaded nightmare began. Silence was my defense and only way to maintain the "high road" (without actually being high) and not seem
a poor sport. The closest Packer gear to protect me was around my tag on my truck parked outside.
I believe x-rays may be in order, so frequent and hard was the ribbing I withstood.
The cars...and their incessant honking horns chased "me" home.
Anxiety ran high...worse yet at the red lights.
"Honk the horn..." Irene would asked..."come on....."
I gave a begrudging toot or two before falling silent and counted the seconds till the lights changed and I could continue my escape.
"Why dont you turn on the radio...." was the next torture I had to endure. The level of glee, happiness, satisfaction...all burned my ears. The local T.V. news stations...all the stations...are spewing it...
"Champions"
A word which must now forever be associated with the Buccos.
The Bengals got to the Bowl..twice...but didnt win either of them - and losers they remain. That was my only hope...that this last vestige of honor could possibly be withheld...alas, t'was not to be and now...incredibly, they now join us...
A sad day...the sad cap to a season that ended sadly.
If I didnt win $300.00 in my office pool...my only "back at ya"...
being the biggest winner in an office of BucFans.
Oh well.
Edited by Jan 26, 2003 9:22 pm
Yikes leader... sorry bud...
I thought I had a Superbowl Party from hell...
Was in a basement with a Dallas fan that yacked on about the Boys being 2 years away from the Ring,,,
Another "Fan' that was in his own words,,, "A Big Buck fan" which went on to educate me that the bucks entered the NFL in 1981... (((Idiot)))
Another guy that didn't care who won,,, any game,,, all year because,,, in his own words,,, "You see ACL,,, I am a fan of fantasy Football... The teams don't really matter to me,,, its the players... I always seem to have a winner every week" bla bla bla,,, ect ect ect... (((AND YOU HAVE TO ASK ME WHY I HATE FANTASY FOOTBALL!!!)))
One guy told me he was a Raiders fan... I asked him who he liked on the team... He couldn't name a single player,,, didn't know the coaches name,,, and never knew/argued about the Raiders playing in LA a few years ago...
By half time,,, I had it with everyone down stairs... Even my friend whos house I was at was being wacky... He tried turning the conversation towards the new "60 Inch Sony Widescreen" with digital outputs out your Butt and Realistic surround sound... Conversation would start out as the Fake Raider fan would say "Good Catch!!!"... My friend would drag that Football response quickly into the Audio Chat Room by saying,,, Ya,,, did you hear the crowd was coming out the front right speaker,,, and the hit came out of the back left!!!
Good lord...
I headed up stairs in the 3rd Quarter to be hammered with Diet ideas/kids IQ scores/Basketball by Joey stats/creative ideas on using pasta from the wifes...
I ate everything in the house,,, and took a dump before I left... 2 of the better things that happened tonight...
Buzzard - Jan 27, 2003 9:01 pm (#2782 of 2927)
Edited by Jan 27, 2003 1:04 pm
Packers name Bonamego as ST coach. Sure is about time was wondering what was holding things up. Probably and edict by the NFL that no major hirings the week before the Super Bowl that would detract from the greatness of the Super Bowl. EH? :-)
http://www.packers.com/news/releases/2003/01/27/1/
Edited by Jan 27, 2003 2:50 pm
Mariucci named head coach of the Detroit Lions
I saw this coming...
- Jan 28, 2003 12:25 am (#2784 of 2927)
Edited by Jan 27, 2003 4:26 pm
Hmm. Big surprise. You're right, Showtime, no one could have possibly foreseen this one. Those tricky Lions! After all, it's not like Marty Mornhinweg and Steve Mariucci come from the same bloodline of coaches (Mike Holmgren) or even run the same offense (West Coast) or even have ties to the area (Mooch is from Iron Mountain, Michigan). Why didn't the Lions use this incredible elusiveness during the season?
The only question now is, how are the Lions going to deal with the NFL's mandate on interviewing minority candidates? I'm sure Dennis Green wouldn't have minded a call from Matt Millen, even if he is the heir apparent to Mooch in San Francisco.
E!
dorf
- Jan 28, 2003 3:58 am (#2785 of 2927)
where the hell is this Bonamego fella from? Some team in the Congo or something?
I will not be watching Sportcenter for another week so as to avoid watching or listening to that fat tub 'o shit Sapp.
Boomer: Sweet thing says she owes you an email...it's just a question of whether she gets the time....heh, heh, heh.
Ya know Dorf - sometimes you can be a prick, ya know that? Give her a rest for criminey sakes!!!
Too lazy to go to the bar, so will deposit a cute one here (at the risk of being banned, disbarred, booted, kicked out...squashed like a bug...):
A man walks into a pharmacy and asks for a vial of cyanide.
The pharmacist, trying to maintain a professional posture, asked what he wanted it for.
He answered, "I want to kill my wife."
"I'm sorry Sir," the pharmacist replied, "but you will have to understand under such circumstances I can't sell you any cyanide."
The guy reaches into his wallet and produces a photo of his wife.
The pharmacist blushes and replies, "I am sorry Sir, I didn't realize you had a prescription."
OK Dorf - Got an email from Sweet Thing. She says you went to sleep.
Ha Ha Ha
Something from a special lady friend known to Packrat and me and includes a few comments from me to those I emailed it to.
This is a very sobering read. No need for any extraneous comments as the article pretty well speaks for me at this time when so many of our brothers and sisters are in harm's way or soon will be.
Even a super storm as we experienced recently in Guam and the recovery from it seems to make sports and even a major event like the Super Bowl seem less relevant. It did to me.
This came to me from a civilian friend (lady) in Florida. I feel it deserves sharing and would ask you to please pass it on, if you feel so inclined. If not, hope you got something out of it anyway.
Boomer in Guam
Keeping the Super Bowl in Perspective
"Super Bowl battle is dwarfed by what band of brothers faces" by Bryan Burwell St. Louis Post Dispatch
1/22/2003
SAN DIEGO - It was just around midnight Tuesday night, and the outdoor courtyard at Dick's Last Resort was throbbing with the rowdy energy of a spring break bacchanal. There was loud rock music blaring out of the stereo speakers, and the air was filled with the distinct and somewhat revolting aroma of deep-fried bar food, cigarette smoke and spilled beer.
Dick's is the sort of bar-restaurant ideally suited for Super Bowl week mischief, because it has a down-and-dirty roadhouse feel to it. The waiters, waitresses and bartenders are charmingly rude, and the wood floors are covered with sand and all sorts of indistinguishable debris. The clientele on this evening is a fascinating mix of twenty-something college kids, thirty-something conventioneers and 40-something Super Bowl high-rollers.
Yet there was one table in Dick's courtyard Tuesday night that was noticeably different from the others. There were six young men at the table and one young woman, and while they were drinking like everyone else in the room, there was something all too serious going on at this table that let you know that their thoughts were a long way from the mindless frivolity of Super Bowl week.
Maybe it was the close-cropped "barracks haircuts" that gave them away. All the men's heads were cut in that familiar look of a professional soldier, skin-close on the sides, and on top a tight shock of hair that resembled ne shoe-brush bristles.
"We're Marines," one man told me. "And tomorrow we're boarding a ship for .. . well . . . I really can't tell you where, but you know."
Of course we knew. In less than an hour, they would report back to a ship docked along the Southern California coast, then on Wednesday head across the Pacific Ocean, bound for a potential war in Iraq. So this was no Super Bowl party for them. This was their last night out on the town. One Marine was saying goodbye to his wife. The others were not so lucky. They all just sat around the table, throwing back beers and wrestling with the sobering uncertainty of the rest of their lives.
"We're going to war and none of us knows if we're ever coming back," said another Marine, a 28-year-old from Southern Illinois. They all requested that I not use their names. "Just tell 'em we're the men of (Marine Aviation Land Support Squad 39)," they said.
On Super Bowl Sunday, the men of MALS 39 will be watching the game from the mess hall of their ship. "That is, if we're lucky and the weather is good and it doesn't interfere with the satellite signal," said the Marine with the bald head and burnt-orange shirt. "But I gotta tell you, I'm not that big a sports fan anymore. It's going to be the first pro football game I've watched in . . . I can't even remember."
Why is that?
"Well, here's my problem with pro sports today," he said. "I don't care whether it's football, basketball or baseball. Guys are complaining about making $6 million instead of $7 million, and what is their job? Playing damned game. You know what I made last year? I made $14,000. They pay me $14,000, and you know what my job description is? I'm paid to take a bullet."
When he said those words, it positively staggered me.
Fourteen thousand dollars to take a bullet.
Not a day goes by that I am not reminded of what a wonderful life I lead. I am paid to write about sports and tell stories on radio and television about the games people play. But sometimes, even in the midst of a grand sporting event, something happens to put the frivolity of sports into its proper perspective, and this was it.
Fourteen thousand dollars to take a bullet.
As I sit here writing from my hotel room, I can look out my balcony window and I see a Navy battleship cutting through the San Diego Bay, heading out to sea. I can see the sailors standing on the deck as the ship sails past Coronado Island, the San Diego Marina and the downtown Seaport Village, and I wonder if any of the men from MALS 39 are aboard.
It was only 12 hours ago that I was sitting at the table with my guys, buying them beers, and listening to their soldier stories. The Marine from Southern Illinois who sat to my right pointed to the bald Marine in the orange shirt who was seated to my left. "You know, I don't even know this guy, can you believe that? We just met a few hours ago when we came into Dick's. Oh, I've seen him on the base, but I've never met him before tonight. But here's what's so special about that man, and why I love that man. He's my brother. Semper Fi. I know a guy back home, and he is my best friend. I'm 28 years old and we've known each other all our lives. But today, that friend is more of a stranger to me than that Marine sitting over there, who I've never met before tonight. That's why they call it a Band of Brothers."
The little Marine in the orange shirt lifted his glass toward the Marine from Southern Illinois and nodded his head. "That's right," he said. "That's my brother over there, and I'm gonna take a bullet for him if I have to."
He said it with a calm and jolting certainty. There was a moving, but chilling, pride in his words.
All around them, people were drinking, shouting and laughing. The college kids and the conventioneers and NFL high-rollers were living the good, carefree life. Across the street, a storefront that was vacant two weeks ago was now filled with $30 caps, $400 leather jackets, $40 mugs and $27 T-shirts with the fancy blue and yellow Super Bowl XXXVII logo embroidered on it.
From every end of the streets of downtown San Diego's fabled Gaslamp Quarter, Super Bowl revelers toasted the Raiders and the Bucanneers with grog-sized mugs filled with beers and rums. But just around midnight in the middle of the courtyard of Dick's Last Resort, a far more deserving toast was going up to the men of MALS 39. We clicked our glasses together, and a few minutes later, they quietly slipped out the courtyard gates.
Suddenly, the Super Bowl didn't seem so important anymore.
May as well throw this in here too...a follow-up to the last post. I guess I'm in a mood tonight after reading the perspective piece and also thinking about the peaceniks demonstrating in our nation. One each Jane Fonda is involved. Not sure why movie stars think they are know-it-alls. Looking for a smoking gun...ain't gonna happen folks. And while Saddam has us waiting he's busy doing his evil deeds or working at it at least. I'll let my little spiel that follows speak for me. Something I posted to two other boards...and standing by for rotten fruits and vegetables to be launched my way. Better than bullets and smart bombs, I say! Here goes:
No doubt some reading here are wearing the uniform and that was for them, whether soldier, sailor, airman or Marine. Not all Americans will have the opportunity to serve their country as they do. Now is the time to support them and not be critical of them in the event you might be unhappy with the way this country is leaning towards war against Iraq.
It's a matter of pay now or pay later and the price later might prove to be extremely expensive. Those waiting for a smoking gun to be produced before taking action are waiting in vain. Saddam isn't going to do what is right and step aside. He's exterminated so many of his own, do you think he'd hesitate a moment to wipe us all out given the chance? He's contemplating a scorched earth policy in the event his fate is sealed and would take his entire country and the region down with him. That's a nice guy? Why so many sympathize for him, including many of our own citizens, is beyond comprehension. He's got the bad stuff and we know it. What he does with it or plans to do with it is the problem. He can easily provide it to Osama's followers. And guess what they'd do with it?
Pay now...pay later...what would you choose? We'd all best recognize that the U.S. is not a safe haven from peril anymore. Those two oceans on either side of us have shrunk and we're very exposed.
I have friends who express concern and worry about a war. Hell, who isn't? How about the men and women in uniform? They'd much prefer to be home warm and cozy with loved ones. But somebody has to do the dastardly deed and risk it all in doing so. I can't stand the pussy-footer peaceniks I'm seeing on the news and reading about. I wish there were some way they could be faced with the immediate peril that others are. Not just Americans, but the Iraqi citizenry as well and their neighbors on either side.
Sorry for the spiel...just had to get it off my chest. To those in harms way...SALUTE!!!
Well, that was certainly a sobering article.
As for the following post, well... Y'know, America is about diversity and expression, so don't hate any of them. Just appreciate the spirit of the country.
Good story about the cyanide, Boomer, but what does that have to do with motorcycles?
Thats right!!! Lets keep on subject here!!!
- Jan 28, 2003 7:38 pm (#2793 of 2927)
I hate to bring the mood down, but I have some bad news for our local veteran posters.
I'd like to throw a shot out to my uncle Kenard, who passed away over the weekend. He was the ultimate "biker," almost a caricature of what we think of when we hear the word: 52 years old, foot-long goatee, hair halfway down his back, loving owner of a '72 Harley Sportster - you know, a chopper, ape-hangers and all. Back in '78 he was riding his Norton in Northern Wisconsin when a drunk woman in a station wagon hit him and dragged him 300+ yards. he lost his right leg that day, but it didn't keep him from riding.
More importantly, he was a veteran of the Viet Nam war, having served two tours in country as a member of the U.S. Army Special Forces, in infantry as a rifleman. A winner of the silver star, he still had the blank dogtags that were issued to him when he was not sent into Cambodia (wink, wink) to do things he would never talk about.
Unfortunately he suffered from post-traumatic stress syndrome, and was particularly affected by the sound of fireworks. He loved his country, and it hurt me to think he couldn't enjoy July 4th.
He is survived by his girlfriend of fifteen years, his ex-wife, and two sons, his eldest a 10th year staff sergeant in the Army, his youngest an engineering student. He was loved by his father, sister (my mother), six brothers, and countless cousins, nephews, neices
and other friends.
He lived as a free spirit, and now he is free.
E!
Sorry to hear it E...
Edited by Jan 28, 2003 12:15 pm
OK!!! ALRIGHT!!!
Maybe I am to blame for the subject matter getting a wee bit off the beat'n path... So,,, here you go... HUGE amount of stuff to read on the Pack!!!
PACKERS!!!
What path?
I'm confussed!!!
E - So sorry to hear about your Uncle. 52 is so damn young to pass on. I'd say he's a true hero and contributed so much to the country he loved. As we all should in some way or another. In spirit if nothing else. You know he's now at peace and among his buddies up on high.
The "wink wink" didn't go over my head E. Been there, but our mission paperwork didn't reflect it. That ain't the only place we were and weren't supposd to be. At least what I flew on. Sometimes we exceeded our northern limits to get rid of some fuel. On the last two days of that stupid conflict (April 29th and 30th, 1975) I was overhead Phnom Penh and watching the city burn while serving as a communications platform (didn't pass an ounce of gas). Each hour we moved our orbit about 20 miles to the west to avoid possible problems. Like we were hiding from somebody? NOT!
For him to go through all that crap in SEA and then get whacked by a motorist. Sad!
Packrat - Cyanide has nothing to do with motorcycles. Should it? You want motorcycle stuff? Check your email sir! You too Dorf.
Edited by Jan 28, 2003 2:23 pm
OK, back on track with something having to do with football. This is a football forum, is it not? Sometimes I'm not sure with some of the BS I see here. ACL makes sense tho...all the time.
OK, here is the football stuff, but it's not, excuse the pun, Packer poop.
Tampa Bay went into Super Bowl 37 as an underdog, and came out as the top dog. Tampa Bay defeated the Oakland Raiders 48 - 21 in San Diego to become the 2002 - 2003 World Champs.
But can Tampa win again next year, or are they just another "one hit wonder"? Super Bowls use to be won by dynasties. The Steelers of the 70's, the 49ers of the 80's, and even the Cowboys of the early 90's were all teams that couldn't be stopped. But in more recent years the NFL champions are teams that are assembled to win one Super Bowl and then are broken up. Over the past 4 seasons there hasn't been a repeat champion.
What is the cause of the "one hit wonder"? Is the league just too competitive, or is the salary cap and free agency to blame?
Send your opinions to: seansezines@hotmail.com
dorf
- Jan 28, 2003 10:49 pm (#2801 of 2927)
Boomer - Jan 28, 2003 1:34 am (#2787 of 2795)
OK Dorf - Got an email from Sweet Thing. She says you went to sleep.
Ha Ha Ha
Bullshit!!!!!! I know for a fact it said something about having her nightie pulled off!!!!!
It's going to be a loooooong off season.
Yeah...and I suspect you did some "editing" of her email...so there.
I know your kind!!! I remember what you did to poor Miss Lee.
Edited by Jan 28, 2003 3:51 pm
Good Packer poop, ACL.
Boomer, always the faithful poster, and not wanting to cause trouble decided to get back on track and post this picture of his Guam-cycle: 
He claims that his is a modified version of the Polish Cowasocky.
Thanx pal. Just wish I was that good looking.
Actually my last bike was a Suzuki TS-250 dirt bike that tried on many occasions to kill me in the hills on Okinawa. Brought it to Guam with me in '80 and expected to continue my career in the dirt.
ALAS!!!, couldn't do it due to the maniacal drivers that infest this little island. NOT even remotely safe on the roads (which you have to do to get to the dirt). I was also told to be careful what jungle trails I ventured down. To do so would be risking life and limb as there are some in the jungles growing illegal stuff and have well armed camps and vicious dogs to keep dirt riders away. So I said fuk it and sold my sweet bike. Ain't rode since. And probably a reason my body blossomed to it's present shape. Slightly rounded.
I had a Honda road bike in Taiwan in '67 - '67 and it was a life saver. It was my only transportation to the city of Taichung 14 miles away where I lived and enjoyed my "entertainment". The night life was a blast and then I met a movie star who put a screeching halt to my wanderings from bar to bar. And I loved every minute of the next ten months. Would you believe a grown man crying when that damn airplane took off from Taipei taking me back to the mainland U.S.? Hate to admit it, but true. Sorry thing is a Navy guy was on my left and an Army guy on my right and probably thinking what a pussy these Air Force guys are.
Another chapter from my book...
Now Al is gonna ask what that has to do with motorcycles or something.
Edited by Jan 29, 2003 7:46 am
I'd say he's a true hero and contributed so much to the country he loved.
He probably was a hero and no doubt he loved his country. Too bad his country treated him so shabbily. Just like those young men today who earn $14K to take a bullet for Rumsfeld.
- Jan 29, 2003 5:49 am (#2806 of 2927)
Edited by Jan 28, 2003 9:49 pm
Whoa, guys! I'm sorry, I didn't mean to stir anything up.
I just thought that many of our faithful posters here would have had a lot in common with my uncle. I didn't want to start a debate or argument. Soldiers are heroes because they do what their country asks of them, even if what is being asked is horrific.
As for my uncle, I always felt he was a hero because he signed up for service regardless of whether or not the country was at war; he did it because he felt it was the right thing to do. It was a family thing: his father (my grandfather) was in WWII and several of his uncles served in Korea, and one of his brothers also served during 'Nam. He was a hero because he would have served chow at an officer's club stateside if it truly meant he was serving his country, war had nothing to do with it. Still, even though it affected him the way it did, he never had a foul word to say about Uncle Sam; it was his job to go and do... whatever, regardless of whether or not he liked it.
I know there are a lot of opinions on the war, especially on the validity of the US' involvement, but please, don't let those feelings get in the way of what we have here. We're all friends here (even Showtime!) ;-) even if we disagree.
E!
:::::and now for something completly different:::::
UUUuuuMMMmmm,,, I bought another motorcycle on E-Bay... As hard as its to believe,,, I bought a "Hog' this time... But,,, i feel like I might have been taken again... 
So,,, in closing,,, I am sorry about posting 22 post in a row and HUGE ones at that but,,, I just had to get it off my chest... I hope Dorf will forgive me,,, and the rest will read the previous 22 post and know just what my thought/hopes/dreams are... It took me over 7 hours to peck it out so,,, at least read it!!!
DOUF!!!
Ah. Back in service.
Hmmm... I see a little elf deleted that quiet little fireside chat I was having with Boomer.
My apologies to all here, especially to Terry, for going off the deep end and posting something totally irrevelant to this forum. It won't happen again.
My apologies to all here, especially to Mark, for going off the deep end and posting something totally irrevelant to this forum. It will happen again.
My apologies to all here, especially to myself, for Austin City Limits.
YOUR MY DAD?!?!?
Was wondering how that little spat was going to resolve...<bg>
Puff!!! It just goes away...
Skol...
Nothing ever really goes away, right? We'll have to refer to our resident physicist for that.
Edited by Feb 3, 2003 6:35 am
Yes,,, and here I am... I am studing some data on "Phantasmagoria" that I am working on an am a little busy to solve this now...
While you wait for me to solve,,, yet again the problems that inflict us here we ALL,,, need to read this...
All the people that either are on the fence,,, against,,, or for us in IRAQ please read this... This could be the door we have been walking towards...
Here!!!
Here is another step along the road toward the "Anti-Crist" and the earth hurdling toward the sun!!!
YOU HAVE,,, to listen to this!!!
ELVIS LIVES!!!
Leader - Feb 3, 2003 4:56 pm (#2820 of 2927)
ACL - Perhaps your post regarding "the door we're walking towards" was somewhat tongue in cheek? Dont know - and not here to refute the findings of the Herald article - but outside the question of how accurate it is, I'm puzzled by one thing. If this Iraqui defector is/was being debriefed in seclusion by Israel - and if they're were/are being miserly with information secured, keeping it the CIA / MI6 - where'd the paper get all it's quotes from?
Edited by Feb 3, 2003 2:08 pm
Leader/All~~~
If you don't think we are walking toward the "Door of War" your loopy,,, that is what I was saying... If you question the article,,, GOOD!!! I question EVERYTHING I hear!!!
How accurate is it??? Well,,, it seems to be quoted in more than one place so,,, its odds are moving up slightly...
Next Wednesday hard evidence on Iraq’s violations will be presented to the UN Security Council. But even more damaging testimony is emerging from other quarters. Intelligence writer Gordon Thomas has reported that a senior bodyguard of Saddam Hussein has defected to Israel with information about a secret Iraqi arsenal. Abu Hamdi Mahmoud has provided a list of Iraqi facilities that house chemical and biological weapons. He also warns that Iraq has secretly purchased missiles from North Korea and has assembled precision anti-ship missiles intended for use against U.S. warships in the Persian Gulf. According to former UN weapons inspector William Tierney, Mahmoud’s information as a “smoking gun.”
According to Thomas, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon intends to “shatter” the growing anti-war movement with Mahmoud’s revelations of Iraq’s plans and preparations.
Here!!!
After Iraq is defeated and the weapons are found it will all become moot.
"if you are not with us you are against us". If you harbor Al Qaeda you are not with us. After Iraq, Iran is next. The middle-east will be purged of terrorists. It is written.
Do thou wish to bet?
The first article was pretty interesting. Of course, this war was a foregone conclusion years ago. But, hey, you don't have to sound quite so excited, d'ya'? - Like you're waiting for a new release by Stephen Spielberg to come out, live on fox news!
So, tell me, if you're Saddam, what do you do? If he has missiles that can take out American ships, do you wait until the day 800 cruise missiles are raining down on you, or do you attack first?
The Elvis stuff was fascinating. Are you going to buy the CDs? Terrific imitation.
The third article... well, you've got to be kidding, right? This guy's straight out of the John Birch society, huh? I mean, c'mon!
Just a a for instance - this new national committment to hydrogen run cars... riiiight, promises, promises. Don't mind me if I don't hold my breath.
And other things - the article is loaded with badly written propaganda bullshit. Like...
He explained that a different strategy would be applied to each country... In dealing with North Korea the U.S. would not be blackmailed.
That's the strategy, huh? We will not be blackmailed. Gee, how novel. With a strategy like that, we oughtta' knock 'em dead.
Yeah, if you harbour any al qaeda, unless of course you're a Saudi and friends with members of the Carlysle Group.
Leader - Feb 4, 2003 2:14 am (#2825 of 2927)
Hey listen guys - I'm late to this chatter, but perhaps I should explain myself. I'm as much in favor of a good war as the next guy. Dont like them really, but they'll happen regardless so they have their place.
I just like to know what the war's about.
Hussein's a scumbag no doubt - but certainly we're not threatening to invade simply because of that.
Weapons of mass destruction?
Sure he's probably got some - but any number of countries do. Do you really believe we're going to invade them too? Anybody seriously think we'll be invading North Korea anytime soon?
He was "in" on 9/11?
Fine - put the info on the table. Everybody's willing to listen and a better validation for invading simply couldnt be found. Throw a NYPD on everybody's helment and let them go kick ass. It would be the most welcomed aggression since war was declared on Japan.
He's got a penthouse suite for Bin Laden?
Good - go get him. Torch the place, deserves no better. But for some stupid reason I doubt Bin Laden's there.
All I'd like to know is an accuate reason. It has nothing do "with us or against us" thinking.
Anyway, that's my thinking. We invade, sure I'll support it. But I'm no dummy and just because I can walk in a parade doesnt mean I agree with the reason the parade began.
- Feb 4, 2003 5:34 am (#2826 of 2927)
Edited by Feb 3, 2003 9:37 pm
A sharp knife has become my wife's best friend.
You know I don't read my horoscope anymore; I read my wife's to see what kind of day I'M going to have.
How many would rather have Ditka in Detroit than Mooch?
- Feb 4, 2003 6:55 am (#2827 of 2927)
Edited by Feb 3, 2003 10:55 pm
I vote for Mike Ditka: it would insure two Packers vistories each year for at least the next two years, maybe more. He's washed up.
E!
Hey, you two: waddya think this is, a packers page or something? Stick to the topic.
which, by the way, could someone clue me in on what the topic is?
A sharp knife??!! Geez, I hope you meant that metaphorically. What kind of women did half of you marry, anyway?
Oops.... how to let the worm out of the can!
Buzzard - Feb 4, 2003 12:45 pm (#2830 of 2927)
Sorry folks but I want to interrupt this discussion for a brief update on the Packers. Got this article from the paper near where Tauscher lives so maybe it has had limited distribution. Enjoy if ya can.
Wisconsin Rapids Daily Tribune
Wed, Jan 29, 2003
Tauscher Healing
Packers' tackle anxious to increase rehab workouts
By KEVIN WINTERS MORRISS
Gannett Sports Writer
Auburndale native Mark Tauscher said his knee is responding well to rehabilitation after missing most of the Green Bay Packers' 2002 season.
"Everything is going really good," Tauscher said. "I am looking forward to being able to push it a little bit more. Everyone is pretty conservative with everything. Hopefully in the next month or two, I am going to be able to start running and pushing on it and see how it is going to hold up."
The former University of Wisconsin and current Packers right tackle will be an honorary athlete at this weekend's Badger State Winter Games in Wausau.
Tauscher tore the medial collateral ligament and some cartilage in his left knee and had about a 75 percent tear of his anterior cruciate ligament in the Packers' loss to the New Orleans Saints on Sept. 16. He refuses to set a definite return date.
"There will be no minicamp, I know that," Tauscher said. "I don't want to set a timetable because that kind of forces the issue a little bit. Obviously I want to be ready to go by training camp. The doctor isn't going to let me go double days at the beginning of camp.
"What I am trying to do is get back for that first game. Now that there is an additional preseason game, which pushes camp up a week, whether or not I'll be ready for that, I'm not sure. I am hoping to be ready to go by that first game."
The free time created by the injury, allowed Tauscher an opportunity to think about entering the teaching field after his playing days are over.
"When something like this comes up, it puts things in perspective a lot quicker," Tauscher said. "When you're not playing, you have a lot of time to think about stuff. I am in class right now. It is something I want to finish so I am done with it. When my career ends in 10 or 12 years, teaching is something I can fall back on.
"Not being able to play this year was not easy. There was nothing you could do about it. That was the hardest part. It just makes you want to get back on the field that much more."
One thing Tauscher didn't enjoy seeing was the Tampa Bay Buccaneers win the Super Bowl.
"I had a hunch it was Tampa Bay's year," Tauscher said. "After what I saw them do to San Francisco, I felt it was their year. Their defense was very good and they reminded me a lot of the Ravens a few years ago. They kind of took away your will and that is what it looked like happened.
"To be honest, I was rooting against them. I wish someone else would have won it."
Tauscher likes the Packers' chances to dethrone the Buccaneers next season, however.
"When we've got Brett Favre quarterbacking, I always like our chances, and hopefully we'll be able to keep guys healthy," Tauscher said. "I have never played general manager. But, there is always room for improvement at every position."
- Feb 4, 2003 5:19 pm (#2831 of 2927)
Seems “Amon Parol” Green didn’t show up for a traffic ticket. Possible jail and fines. Just when I was starting to like the guy.
Edited by Feb 4, 2003 9:41 pm
:::::austin walks towards the podium once again to answer/teach others the proper way to post on wormholes and be thought of as a legend as austin is in his own world:::::
How to post and be admired as I am??? Only 1 way,,, repeat,,, ONLY ONE WAY!!! "Short and to the point"...
Thats why I am all business and to the point...
Make a post,,, and get off... None of this yacking on and on about draft picks we should take in the 12th round for me sister,,, no way...
People are always commenting to me what a "Kick in the Pants" having me around makes them feel... 
Make the post,,, short and sweet,,, and off,,, OFF I SAY!!!
People are telling me that reading my post makes them think I am off the chart,,, and,,, you know,,, that makes me all warm inside... 
The frigg'n guys that post just to post drive me NUTS!!! Why,,, do they even think I want to hear them!!! Yack yack yack... Good Lord... I am sure thats why they always want to give me a new name,,, but,,, I never have seen the name,,, they always are "Instant Messaging" each other with the name you see... 
Me??? I pride myself in knowing that I am not the kind of guy that just yacks on and on just to see his post on some Wormhole,,, not ever going to see me do that!!! 
Yep,,, at the end of the day theres a better chance of seeing Pigs Fly than to see me waste even a sentence more than needs to be said... 
And I thought I was in trouble...
Pyment - Feb 5, 2003 4:48 pm (#2834 of 2927)
Coaching promotions:
Sherman Promotes Bevell To Quarterbacks Coach; Miller Elevated To Assistant Defensive Line Coach
posted 02/04/2003
Darrell Bevell, an offensive assistant on the Green Bay Packers' coaching staff the past three years, has been promoted to quarterbacks coach, GM-Head Coach Mike Sherman announced Tuesday.
When Darrell Bevell was promoted to offensive assistant in April of last year, he was shouldered with the task of grooming Brett Favre's successor.
His promotion Tuesday means that the 33-year-old is now shouldered with the task of grooming Favre as well.
Named the Packers' new quarterbacks coach by GM/Head Coach Mike Sherman, Bevell becomes responsible for the productivity and development of all Packers quarterbacks.
"If Coach Sherman wants something conveyed to Brett, I will be the person to communicate it to him now," Bevell explained.
Coaching a three-time NFL MVP could be considered a mixed blessing.
On the one hand, Favre already possesses know-how and talent that are perhaps second to none. On the other, suggesting to a future Hall of Famer that an area of his game needs improvement isn't a job for just anyone.
Challenging as that balance may be, Bevell said he isn't intimidated by the idea of coaching a football legend.
"I have a full understanding of what we're doing with this offense and what Coach Sherman wants out of the position," Bevell said.
"Just because Brett's a Hall of Fame player doesn't mean that he can't improve on things. Every player at every level, whether a rookie or a 12-year veteran, there's always things that you can improve on.
"Brett wants to improve and Brett wants to be coached, and that's where I can help."
Bevell's promotion also helps the coaching staff as he now will assume the day-to-day responsibility of conducting quarterback meetings, freeing up extra time for offensive coordinator Tom Rossley to use as the offense's needs dictate.
About to begin his third season with the Packers, the former Wisconsin Badger is excited about his increased role.
"With every promotion comes higher expectations, which I welcome," Bevell said. "I appreciate the fact that Coach Sherman is giving me this great opportunity, as well as all of the help and support that Tom has given me the past three years.
"When I was hired in 2000, Coach Sherman talked about there being a definite plan. Maybe the first year I was here the thought of coaching Brett might have been intimidating. But now I'm confident that I know what Coach Sherman wants out of that position, and I'm ready."
The promotion is the second in as many years for Bevell, an original member of the Sherman staff hired as an offensive assistant/quality control in 2000. Described as an "excellent teacher" by Sherman, he had been advanced to offensive assistant April 27, 2002, when assigned more hands-on duty in coaching the quarterbacks.
"Darrell has developed into an excellent quarterbacks coach," Sherman said in making the announcement. "My original plan three years ago was to elevate him to this position if I felt confident in his abilities, and I do. He has done an outstanding job working with our offense and the quarterbacks since he’s been here. I’m confident that will continue."
Sherman also announced that Brad Miller, defensive assistant/quality control, has been promoted to assistant defensive line coach.
Bevell Welcomes Increased Role
by Jason Bellamy, Packers.com
posted 02/04/2003
Bevell, now beginning his eighth season in the coaching profession, spent the bulk of his time last season tutoring rookie quarterback Craig Nall, in addition to continuing to assist Offensive Coordinator Tom Rossley with offensive strategy and game planning. He also continued to compile scouting reports, breaking down opponent game video and setting up the Packers' extensive collection of teaching tools, including the Pinnacle digital video system.
The son of a high school football, coach, the 33-year-old Bevell originally joined the Packers' coaching staff on March 7, 2000, following four years of developing his coaching skills in the collegiate ranks, including two seasons (1998-99) at the University of Connecticut as wide receivers coach. Under his direction during the 1998 campaign, Connecticut senior wideout Carl Bond posted a school-record 11 touchdown receptions and teamed with sophomore receiver John Fitzsimmons to jointly post 1,000-yard seasons – the first such tandem in school history.
Bevell is best known to football fans in Wisconsin as the quarterback who led the Badgers to victory in the 1994 Rose Bowl, an accomplishment which climaxed the UW's storybook 1993 regular season, one that saw Wisconsin finish 10-1-1 and claim a share of the Big Ten Conference championship – the school's first league title since 1962. A four-year starter, Bevell closed out his career in Madison as Wisconsin's all-time leading passer with 18 school records and two Big Ten marks.
Following graduation in 1995, he launched his coaching career, becoming an assistant at Westmar University in Lamar, Iowa (the college since has closed). He served as Westmar's passing game coordinator in 1998, and also tutored the school's quarterbacks, running backs, tight ends and wide receivers. Bevell moved on to Iowa State in 1997 as a graduate assistant, coaching the wide receivers.
The Arizona native, born in Yuma Jan. 6, 1970, played football for his father, James, at Chaparral High School in Scottsdale, Ariz., laying the groundwork for his interest in later joining the coaching profession. He began his collegiate playing career at Northern Arizona in 1989, spending the year as a redshirt before leaving school for a two-year Mormon mission in Cleveland (1990-91). He then transferred to Wisconsin in the spring of 1992.
Bevell resides in De Pere, Wis., with his wife, Tammy, and their two daughters, Kylie (born 10/2/96) and Morgan (born 4/1/99).
BEVELL COACHING BACKGROUND:
1996 - Westmar University, Passing Game Coordinator/Quarterbacks, Running Backs, Tight Ends, Wide Receivers
1997 - Iowa State, Graduate Assistant
1998-99 - Univ. of Connecticut, Wide Receivers
2000-01 - Green Bay Packers, Offensive Assistant/Quality Control
2002 - Green Bay Packers, Offensive Assistant
2003 - Green Bay Packers, Quarterbacks
Miller, a 17-year coaching veteran, joined the Packers staff Feb. 22, 2001, as defensive assistant/quality control – a role in which he also has assisted Defensive Line Coach Jethro Franklin, in addition to carrying out extensive duties studying opponent tendencies and integrating the club's Pinnacle digital video system with PowerPoint to further enhance the team's teaching of its players.
"Brad has a wealth of experience and knowledge, both on the field with the players and off the field with the video and computers," Sherman said of Miller. "He will continue to facilitate the teaching of our coaches to the players with PowerPoint and video in an effort to keep us ahead in this area. By adding the title of assistant defensive line coach, his on-the-field duties will expand as he assists Jethro Franklin with the defensive line and John Bonamego with special teams."
Before entering the NFL, the 39-year-old Pasadena, Calif., native was a member of the Edmonton Eskimos' coaching staff for five seasons (1996-2000), serving in the 2000 season as the team's assistant head coach/defensive coordinator/linebackers coach after coaching the defensive line (1996, 1998-1999) and serving as defensive coordinator/secondary coach (1997). Miller's 1996 defensive line contributed to the Eskimos posting the top-ranked defense in the Canadian Football League on the way to an appearance in the Grey Cup.
Miller had made his pro coaching debut in 1995 with the CFL's Birmingham Barracudas as linebackers coach.
Before entering the professional ranks, Miller coached at the collegiate level for nine years,
Pyment - Feb 5, 2003 4:50 pm (#2835 of 2927)
Does Bevell's promotion mean that he is there to get between Rossley and Favre? Does it mean that he has done a great job with Nall who is now ready to contribute?
Pyment~~~
There you go,,, asking questions off the topic... Ok,,, fine,,, we will move towards your topic,,, but after these 2 things I have to get off my chest/hard drive...
# 1 ~~~ So,,, uuummm,,, tell me will you,,, why ANYONE,,, cares what France thinks about IRAQ?!?!?! 
# 2 ~~~ Its official,,, we have all the world support we need!!!
Lets Roll... 
Mister Chairman,,, I allot the rest of my time towards the answering of Pyments Question and thank the distinguished poster Pyment for allowing me to post at this time...
I yield to the Chairman...
Edited by Feb 5, 2003 11:30 am
ACL - Where did you learn all this crap? Did your teachers have a lot of trouble with you? Is Calvin a relative? Do you associate with Jon Gruden? Your assignment, if you should decide to accept it, is to read 15 Green Bay Packer columns and write a full report on them. ;-)
PY - That same thought entered my (alleged) brain when I read that column. Where is Rossley in the coaching of QB's? Bevell will probably soon have a new pupil - either by a trade or from the draft. I am most anxious to see Nall perform in training camp this year.
Packrat~~~
# 1 ~~~ Where did you learn all this crap? ~~~ Learned all this "Crap' from friends and buddies...
# 2 ~~~ Did your teachers have a lot of trouble with you? ~~~ I was voted "Class Clown" in School,,, along with one of Teachers favorites,,, figure that one out!!! I will go on record that don't happen often!!!
Also,,, was voted "Most Likely to die by the age of 18" when I was a Junior in a class "Lampoon" vote making fun of the senior classes voting on "Most Likely to succeed" and such... That one to this day bothers me... Since I don't Smoke/Drugs/Drink in my LIFE!!! Ok,,, yes,,, I was a shade wild...
# 3 ~~~ Is Calvin a relative? ~~~ I AM,,, Calvin...
# 4 ~~~ Do you associate with Jon Gruden? ~~~ No,,, it states in my contract when I became a owner of the Packers that I can not have close associations with coaches from other teams... So,,, just to be safe I only yack with Packer people on a personal basis...
# 5 ~~~ read 15 Green Bay Packer columns and write a full report on them. ~~~ GO% DA#& SON OF A B&*(^!!! Ok,,, all right!!! I was taught to do as old people tell you/ask of you so,,, I will read,,, and I will write an article... I might write on trying to trade our 12th round draft choice with Cincinatti for a player to be named later...
Can you tell my intake of sugar has not dropped to the levels needed??? 8^)
My remaining time is given to the next speaker as long as it ain't Boomer,,, I want to stay ahead of him in time of post...
ACL - Have you ever visited a psychiatrist? What did he say? (LMAO.)
Get some clothes on,,, get off my desk,,, and GET OUT!!! OUT I SAY!!!
You sure he didn't tell you to take baby steps and ask you if your name was Bob?
Edited by Feb 6, 2003 9:14 pm
There's only one thing I want to know...
How come I never get invited to parties like that???
Man, they sound like fun!!! I would have loved to have been at Mark Chmura's party...Hot tub's, drunken, naked, teenage girls...<sigh>
Skol...
Raven, that's exactly what I say.
And, the real bitch is, ACL gets invited to all of them. But, does he ever bring one of us? *Ever*?
They happen quick,,,
I don't have your phone #'s,,,
its always late,,,
I know you guys work,,,
my mobile phone sucks,,,
the site of Boomer & Packrat in a hot tub when I walk in really takes the edge off of the party for me,,,
Dorf is always stealing my chicks,,,
Big E Scares me when he is drunk,,,
Mark is always on the sofa "Flexing his brain" and taking up all the good/wholesome women,,,
Terry is impressing all the rest of the chicks with his accent,,,
Whats that leave??? Me and Leader watching TV... Yeah,,, wait by the phone,,, I will call...
- Feb 7, 2003 5:00 pm (#2846 of 2927)
Edited by Feb 7, 2003 9:01 am
ACL -
The truth is, I don't drink alcohol - I act stupid enough at parties without it!
Now gimme your lunch money and clean my locker! ;-)
E!
You mean,,, there are 2 guys at least on here that don't drink?!?!?!? The strongest thing I have ever had was an out of date Choc-Cola back in 9th grade... 8^P
Heading up to Chicago to the motorcycle show this weekend... So,,, you guys can rest and know you have a few days off from my rants...
Later!!!
ACL
I guess that I'll just stroll on over to the Bears' board and deposit that Vikings story, if you don't mind, Mark. They don't hate the Vikings as much as the Packers, but, enough. Enough.
Clearly we're just a handful of days from going into Iraq. I find this a bit distressing - Bush has still not told us what Hussein has; and if the goal is to get Hussein, we're going to have to occupy cities. If we fight door to door, we're going to see 10,000 body bags.
I still don't understand what's over there that's worth 10,000 body bags. Besides, we all know the real enemy is Saudi Arabia, and their religion, their school system, their money that funds terrorism, and their lower caste, who carries the bombs.
Iraq? I don't get it. Let the AF and Navy go wild on them for a couple weeks, Iraq'll have no mechanized army or functional air force left, no chemical factories, no radar, no missiles. Why do we need to send in ground troups?
N.Korea, by comparison, seems obvious to me: as soon as there's heat plumes from that reactor, we drop a big bomb. If NK attacks someone, oh well. At that point, we have no big fight with them, the S.Koreans and their "US GO HOME" president can handle it, I have the greatest confidence in them.
Fred is right: why do we want to be the world's mommy? Of course, we have to protect our interests, that's why we bomb the NK breeder reactor, but why are we always sending grunts all over the place?
Damned politicians.
I picture the action in Iraq to look much like Desert Storm. Wipe out the tanks, planes and other weapons, but, do it completely this time. Let the citizens and military revolt and remove Saddam and his palace guard much like Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Help rebuild the country. I do not picture US ground troops involved in house to house fighting in the cities. Once again, it's an air force show.
Allowing a leader like Saddam to contimue in power can lead to nuclear weapons and another N. Korea type situation. The problem with N. Korea is our troops in S. Korea who are vulnerable to a nuclear attack by N. Korea. In retrospect, it would have been so much better if we had lost the war in Korea. Maybe the best strategy is pull out our troops from S. Korea.
I believe that the only way to assure our safety from terrorists in this country is to purge the terrorists and their nests in the middle east. I guess that means all of the middle east countries. To just go merrily on our way is to accept terrorism in the US and the rest of the world as a way of life.
Edited by Feb 8, 2003 2:15 pm
Zak Kustok? Zak Kustok!!!!!!! What? Ah, hell I must be drunk, there's no way the Packers would ever hire that underachiever. He couldn't even make the roster on a team where Ray Lucas was second string. Sage Rosenfel made the squad over Zakk.
Interesting word, "Allowing".
Isn't it?
Edited by Feb 8, 2003 10:02 pm
Why Wisconsin is the best place on earth. . .
Edited by Feb 9, 2003 5:44 am
Clearly we're just a handful of days from going into Iraq. I find this a bit distressing - Bush has still not told us what Hussein has; and if the goal is to get Hussein, we're going to have to occupy cities. If we fight door to door, we're going to see 10,000 body bags.
I still don't understand what's over there that's worth 10,000 body bags. Besides, we all know the real enemy is Saudi Arabia, and their religion, their school system, their money that funds terrorism, and their lower caste, who carries the bombs.
Iraq? I don't get it. Let the AF and Navy go wild on them for a couple weeks, Iraq'll have no mechanized army or functional air force left, no chemical factories, no radar, no missiles. Why do we need to send in ground troups?
N.Korea, by comparison, seems obvious to me: as soon as there's heat plumes from that reactor, we drop a big bomb. If NK attacks someone, oh well. At that point, we have no big fight with them, the S.Koreans and their "US GO HOME" president can handle it, I have the greatest confidence in them.
Fred is right: why do we want to be the world's mommy? Of course, we have to protect our interests, that's why we bomb the NK breeder reactor, but why are we always sending grunts all over the place?
Fred is wrong. It's not about being MOMMY. It's about MONEY. It's always about money. If you wish, you can change 'money' for 'order' - but make sure you specify that it's the 'order' of the most powerful. It's about warriers going off to fight for high priests. Once upon a time, the rulers led the charge. No more. The rulers are not about to be put in harm's way. But they will rake in the dough.
This is not an argument for or against war. The world and the human heart work in certain ways. This is man's gridwork, so to speak, man's game. You have to live in it, but you don't have to believe the mythology surrounding it. Whether you want to play with enthusiasm or just try to get by while watching (but not eliminating your contribution, just minimizing it), that's for each to... well, I was going to say, "decide," but rather it's up to the nature of each.
About this war. Iraqi veterans warn against it. 700,000 soldiers returned from Iraq last time and 300,000 have sought VA health care. 200,000 have filed VA disability claims. Yet, a couple of weeks ago, Bush slashed $275 million from the healthcare budget of the Department of Veterans Affairs.
Why so many sick soldiers? Chemicals and NCB suits that don't work. Mandatory innoculations of experimental drugs. Experimental pills. And this time it will be worse, because big chunks of Iraq is already littered with more than 300 tons of radioactive dust and shrapnel from the 1991 Gulf War - depleted uranium. It's still there because we made sure the Iraqis didn't have the equipment to clean it up.
I could go on. And on. And on.
People seem to believe that there won't be body bags coming back home. They believe the Iraqis will rise up, the army won't fight, can't fight, that the entire Iraqi structure will tumble like a house of cards. If so, what the hell is the big threat? If that asshole (Saddam) is so dangerous, then what makes us think a war will be a breeze? The last time Iraqi civilians rose up, we left them hanging in the wind, to be picked off with ease by Saddam's forces. Anyone think they can hardly wait for us to return so they can all rise up against their dictator?
I'm not so sure about bombing the shit out of them instead. Does anyone think it's good for our souls to kill that many human beings? How many Iraqis do you know or have you met? Anyone think they are any different that us, right here? Any different than human beings with dreams, hopes, loves, fears, a desire to survive?
But forget all that. Half of it is sentimentality anyway. There are reasons to go to war, perhaps. Economic reasons, for instance. Reasons to do with the Euro and the Dollar (Iraq changed to the Euro as its choice of international currency). I'm not an economist and I don't understand the workings of international economics, but I've read very credible sources economic theories (which I can't remember, of course) that there are very real dangers at the moment to the US economy. However, this approach to solving them can bring about the opposite results. Undesirable results. Depending on what other OPEC countries do (in regard to currency, for instance).
The potential future threats of WMD, I'm not so sure about. The neighborhood is getting to be a very dangerous place. Technology. The irony is that we may have contributed to that. There were scientists on the Manhattan project who advised against ever using the bomb, but instead letting disinformation trickle out that all that effort didn't work, that it was felt the bomb was an impossibility, to discourage others from pursuing that course. Of course, by now, that would probably be moot anyway. But the question is - will the world really be any safer from WMD after Iraq is knocked off? I seriously doubt it.
-- MORE --
Edited by Feb 9, 2003 5:58 am
-- cont. --
To me, the question is, should America be in the business of starting wars? Is that the image we want to project; the example we want to set; the kind of empire and people we want to become? And is that the best way to maintain our own privileged place in the world?
It's not that we haven't started wars - but we took pains to appear that we weren't like that. One of the problems with Vietnam - if one wants to look at it that way - is that it was a war run by politicians who were, one might say, "hamstrung" by the self-image of America. Johnson wanted to force the North Vietnamese to the negotiating table. He was not trying to destroy an enemy's will and ability to wage war (wasn't that how Von Clausewitz put it?). He wouldn't listen to his generals. And all those Americans were hung out to dry.
BUT, for all the disaster that Vietnam was, do we really want it any other way?
There hasn't really been any serious discussion about this new type of American foreign policy. It was hushed and by the time any debate could roll around, the debate had shifted into whether Saddam had sufficiently broken the UN resolution - war being a foregone conclusion if one side won that argument (and probably even if the other side won the argument). Thus the population hasn't put any serious thought into what this means for America's future. Nor has it been even exposed to others' discussion of the matter. It's never been on the table. All discussion has revolved around Saddam, as if our policies and strategies should be decided by his actions.
It's arguable, I would think, that the future of America is really hanging on future markets. The modern multi-national corporation has no nation. It only has markets. And when China becomes a nation of 2 billion consumers, what influence will Americans have on the course of the world or even on their own lives? Is this current foreign 'policy' related to that picture? Has some think tank taken enough of an overview and figured that a new, militaristic foreign policy is the only way to save America's future? I don't know. As far as I know, no one's talking about it. If so, perhaps real arguments could be made for the coming war. But so far, what I've heard has been less than convincing.
Last one
Catch Me If You Can
I should be a natural recruit to the pro-war camp. Trouble is, their arguments remain so painfully thin
Jonathan Freedland
Wednesday February 5, 2003
The Guardian
By rights, I should be for this war. I am instinctively pro-American, if not pro-Bush. I care enough about the security of Israel to back the removal of a regime which rained missiles down on that country little more than a decade ago. I am not against military interventions per se and believe that US power can sometimes be a force for good in the world: that's why I supported the Kosovo campaign of 1999.
Even my prejudices draw me to the pro-war side. When I see Tony Blair alongside Jacques Chirac, I find myself drawn to Blair's brand of conviction politics - his willingness to defend an unpopular cause - rather than to Chirac's self-interested calculation which, you just know, will see France sink its nose into the Iraqi trough the instant there's a sniff of oil profits to be had.
So I should be a natural recruit to the pro-war camp. The trouble is, most of the pro-war arguments remain so painfully thin. First, Blair says we have to get Saddam before he gets us. But the evidence of Iraqi aggression beyond its borders has been slim to non-existent for more than 12 years: the US and its allies have confined the Iraqi dictator to his cage.
Today Colin Powell will try to firm up the second, related argument, that Saddam may not strike at us himself, but he is arming the fanatics of al-Qaida to do so. This pairing of Saddam and Osama is like a love match between the Pope and Kylie - one of those relationships that is theoretically possible but remains unproven and unlikely. Maybe Powell's evidence will change our minds; until then, sceptics can wonder why Washington waited till now to reveal it.
But if those arguments don't convince, there are a couple more which should fare better. The first is the humanitarian case, which says that Iraqis lead miserable lives and are desperate to be freed from a murderous tyrant. That cannot be in dispute, but much that flows from it is. Will the price of this "liberation" be too high, in the form, first, of mass Iraqi casualties and, second, a long-run occupation by a foreign power? Are we eroding yet further the notion of state sovereignty, by not merely intervening in a contested province of a country - as Nato did in Kosovo - but changing fundamentally the make-up of the country itself? Perhaps these objections could be overcome if humanitarianism was the driving motive of the coming war on Iraq, as it was in the Balkans. But it is not.
Still, respectable defences of the coming conflict do not run out there. The most plausible argument, championed by US liberals, centres on the beneficial effect for the wider Middle East of a new, democratic Iraq. Thomas Friedman of the New York Times has written that the prospect of Iraq as a "progressive model" for the region is the only "morally and strategically justifiable reason to support this war. The Bush team dare not invade Iraq simply to install a more friendly dictator to pump us oil. And it dare not simply disarm Iraq and then walk away from the nation-building task."
Here then is the ground where moderates hovering over the pro- or anti-war line need to be persuaded. If Friedman is right, then perhaps an attack on Iraq is legitimate. But, with a heavy heart, I fear he is wrong.
For one thing, it does not take a knee-jerk European leftie to cite the US track record as reason to doubt Friedman's Quiet American optimism. With Afghanistan only the most recent example, the US has repeatedly "walked away" after the fireworks are over - usually leaving Europeans and others to clear up the mess. In Somalia a decade ago, 18 US casualties were enough to send the Americans packing, while "nation-building" became a swear word. As for the US installing "a more friendly dictator," that has long been Washington's preferred modus operandi, from the Middle East to Latin America. It is almost a foreign policy doctrine: he may be a sonofabitch, but at least he's our sonofabitch. To assume that Iraq will be different is to make a historical leap of faith.
But, OK. Let's put history aside and believe that, this time, the US will be different. Let's say it really will try to establish Iraq as a democracy. Can that be done down the barrel of a gun? Is there not something in the very nature of self-government that suggests it cannot be imposed from outside, and certainly not by force on a country with no history of democracy?
Defenders of the war offer the Japan of 1945 as the textbook example. There a nation, crushed in war, transitioned peacefully from rule-by-emperor to parliamentary democracy: Baghdad could do the same. But historians of the period say the differences are too many to count - starting with the moral legitimacy the US occupation of Japan had in the eyes of both the world and even Japanese opinion. No such global consensus exists on Iraq.
Besides, the liberal dream of a remade, post-Saddam Middle East assumes that there is no other way to do it. It makes war the first resort rather than the last. In fact, if the US and its allies were so keen to spread democracy through the Arab world, there are countless moves they could make. The US gives aid to a whole clutch of unelected regimes: it could start tying that cash to democratic performance. It could turn to Egypt and say: "This year's cheque for $2bn is conditional on a free press and an independent judiciary. Next year, no money unless you hold real elections." Why not use that method to make Egypt the "progressive model for the whole region"?
Which leaves us with David Owen's hope, aired on these pages yesterday, that a war in the Gulf might lead to peace in the Middle East. Unfortunately, that hope seems to rest on two shaky premises. First, it suggests that Israel is holding on to the occupied territories as some sort of strategic buffer, to protect it against foreign threat. If the threat from Iraq is gone, runs the argument, then Israel won't need the buffer and will give it up. But, as the Scuds of 1991 proved, the West Bank does not work as a barrier. Thanks to missile technology, Tel Aviv is within reach of enemy fire even when Israel holds onto the occupied territories. No, security is not the chief reason why the Israeli right wants to keep hold of those lands - it's a more complex brew than that - so a change in Iraq won't bring a breakthrough on that score.
The second, wobbly premise is its misreading of Washington. The first Bush administration was filled with "realists" who understood the need for a Palestinian-Israeli accord and were ready to pressure Israel to get it. But today's Bush team is not made up of James Bakers: if it were they could have demanded peace moves now, without going to war. Instead, the administration includes several men of Likud sympathies, whose likeliest reaction to victory in Baghdad is not going to be a request to Israel to give up land - but rather a determination to make the Arabs understand the new reality.
So, much as I might like to cross sides, I'm afraid I can't. I still don't believe in this war.
We can continue flying over Iraq and keeping troops on guard to hold them down in poverty for generations, or we can help the Iraqis to gain their freedom and spend our money helping them re-build their country as a democracy. We can stick around until Iraq has established a period of stability as an affluent democracy. I would prefer to spend the money in that way. Every country that has been brought to affluence has lost interest in warring for gain.
Iraq is a destabilising influence in the middle east.
Buzzard - Feb 10, 2003 1:06 pm (#2859 of 2927)
Brandt says they aren't likely to put a tag on Hunt or Holliday. He has some comments on some of the other free agents also. Interesting article. Not as pertinent as the previous ones but it is football.
http://www.madison.com/wisconsinstatejournal/sports/42386.php
I surely hope (and believe) that S/H are not foolish enough to put a Franchise tag on either Holliday or Hunt. Let them go. Use the money for signing other free agents.
We can continue flying over Iraq and keeping troops on guard to hold them down in poverty for generations, or we can help the Iraqis to gain their freedom and spend our money helping them re-build their country as a democracy. We can stick around until Iraq has established a period of stability as an affluent democracy. I would prefer to spend the money in that way. Every country that has been brought to affluence has lost interest in warring for gain.
I'm game. Name a country we've brought to democracy and affluence so I can study the history.
- Feb 10, 2003 6:59 pm (#2862 of 2927)
Hey, all.
I started a new thread called "Current Events" where you guys can discuss your thoughts on the pending war and other such world happenings.
I'm not telling anyone to get lost or anything, I'm just trying to keep the End Zone a football-related thread. I respect everyone's right to their opinion, I just think it should be shared in the appropriate environment, that's all.
Enjoy the new digs, and remember - play nice!
E!
Edited by Feb 10, 2003 12:50 pm
Yeah,,, lets stay on subject like Big E says!!!
:::::austin steps behind Big E quickly:::::
Good idea! That's sounds okay by me. I'll be in there until the draft. :-)
Edited by Feb 10, 2003 7:03 pm
To whom are you referring, E!? I thought that I was playing nicely. True, I did get off the subject of motorcylcles. I'll get right back to that. Is that what you wanted?
Here, for historical purposes, is a little depiction of ACL's youthful days, sent along by Boomer: 
Dang Red X...
Edited by Feb 10, 2003 7:03 pm
I'm working on it.
Got it. Heh, heh.
- Feb 11, 2003 4:21 pm (#2868 of 2927)
Edited by Feb 11, 2003 8:22 am
I read that article on Cletidus Hunt and Vonie Holliday. Hmmm... I can't decide what we should do. It seems like we can't keep both of them, so whom do we retain?
Personally, I say Hunt, simply because he's always played consistently, even if he is one strike away from a one-year suspension. I love Holliday, but he's always been so streaky I don't even feel he warranted being a first-round pick.
So: I say we keep Hunt, let Holliday go to a team like Carolina (where he wanted to play in the first place), and make a move at a top-shelf free-agent LB (or pass rushing specialist) like the Eagles' Hugh Douglas or the Bears' Roosevelt Colvin.
I feel fairly confident that Aaron Kampman can ably fill Holliday's shoes, but that it would be harder for us to pick up for Hunt.
Anyone else have an opinion?
E!
Dennis Erickson?????
ACL, quick, get me your biggest boots, I feel a need to quake.
Well, if this is what the 49ers needed to go that last step. . . I'm reminded of the russian joke:
"Under communism we marched blindly up to the edge of a bottomless precipice, but under democracy we have taken a bold step forwards."
Seattle man,,, all good coaches come through Seattle...
- Feb 13, 2003 7:20 am (#2871 of 2927)
Boy, when I saw that San Francisco had hired Dennis Erickson over Dennis Green, I was ecstatic. Erickson is an innovative offensive mind, but his stuff only seems to work in the college game, not the pros. Green was always on the verge of doing great things in Minnesota, and I was afraid of what he could do with the weapons that the 49ers have in Jeff Garcia, Terrell Owens, Garrison Hearst, et al. Plus, Green would have had the luxury of leading the 49ers through the weak NFC West, with 4 gimme wins over Seattle and Arizona every year.
E!
Edited by Feb 13, 2003 10:43 am
Maybe Walsh feels that Ericson is a guy that he can manipulate, unlike Mariucci or Green
Pyment - Feb 13, 2003 7:53 pm (#2873 of 2927)
Erickson = bookmark
At least until Holmey gets the ax.
- Feb 13, 2003 8:52 pm (#2874 of 2927)
Py -
Good point. If Erickson fails to break .500 next year and The Walrus gets the axe in the Emerald City, the "Holmgren Era" is sure to begin in San Francisco with the 2004 season.
E!
Makes you wish for Holmy to register a firm .503%... 8^)
Later dudes!!! Mexico is calling... If I get there,,, and they let me back I shall return... If not,,, your welcome to break in here and steal any Packer stuff you want... First come,,, first served...
Later!!!
ACL
- Feb 13, 2003 11:20 pm (#2876 of 2927)
Adios, amigo! Vaya con dios!
E!
Watch out for Montezuma.
- Feb 14, 2003 7:19 pm (#2878 of 2927)
Edited by Feb 14, 2003 11:20 am
Yeah, don't piss him off - he's infamous for his revenge.
E!
Pyment - Feb 14, 2003 9:55 pm (#2879 of 2927)
Edited by Feb 14, 2003 2:02 pm
EEEEWWWWWW!
The Niners gave Erickson a 5-year, $2.5 million a year deal. If they fire him after this season they will owe him $10 million plus whatever they have to pay Holmgren if they hire him. Not exactly chump change.
Anyway, I'm thinking the Seahawks might just have a pretty good year in the suddenly messed-up NFC West division.
The problem with political threads is that people don't actually want to agree and are in no danger of having their minds changed on beliefs they've held for a while. Can you "talk" a 49ers fan into becoming a Packers fan? Of course not -- it's who they are.
Leader - Feb 16, 2003 5:55 pm (#2882 of 2927)
Dont want to seem contrary, but an exchange of ideas, discussion of perspectives can take place without the premise that someone's ideas must change. That someone's "right" and someone's "wrong". At least I think so.
Edited by Feb 16, 2003 12:45 pm
Leader, you're wrong. I'm right. And I can change your mind, especially if you'll just shut up and listen to reason. There's no such thing as perspectives, that's just more PC crap. There's just right and wrong, black and white. That's it. Oh, and everyone but me and six of my closest friends are going to hell, so you all had better treat me nice. Boomer is going to heaven too, but that's a special case: he had beers with god once in a thailand brothel. I dunno, it happens.
Edited by Feb 16, 2003 3:42 pm
Mark - You're wrong! It wasn't a god, it was a goddess. In fact, it was several of them. #1234, who couldn't speak a single word of English, was the finest of all. She moaned with the best of them though. #567, who spoke good English, wasn't too shabby either!
Let's get it straight. I'm NOT into gods...only goddesses. And I'm sure glad Favorite Wife doesn't read this forum.
OK, now you and Leader can get get it back on again. Good luck.
Me going to Heaven?
Yeah, when Hell freezes over or the Lions or Vikings win a Super Bowl or the Chicago Bears a second one.
Anybody going to Heaven here it's going to be Packrat. He's a really Good Guy.
Edited by Feb 16, 2003 3:46 pm
Yo ACL - how many soybeans harvested today? Say what? Freezing cold and snow in Illinois? Off to Mexico, you say? YGTBSM!!! Sounds like excuses to me.
This is one more to the total. I'll catch up to him yet.
I swear I just saw a flock of flying pigs go by.
VIVE LA FRANCE!!!
Leader - Feb 17, 2003 12:08 am (#2888 of 2927)
Edited by Feb 16, 2003 4:09 pm
You see? Proof positive I'm right. Some of what you say has merit and merits (an interesting use of words eh? Well, suddenly realizing you cant think, those words were poorly chosen...but anyway) ... where did I leave off (?) Ahh...some of what you say merits my further consideration and being the thoughtful and considerate (another interesting twist of words...) guy that I am...consider it I will.
Unfortunately...with all these fine, weighty topics arrayed before me...I find the moans of #1234 the one I'd most like to explore further!
Not anymore you wouldn't John...for she is now nearing 50 and has probably lost most of her teeth. She was only about 16 then and a rare beauty. For some reason the number 1234 has remained in my mind. Easy to remember maybe? Or something else? It was that something else that places her high atop the Most Delicious Poll. Only about 4 foot ten too. Snake-like moves. Oh Christ, did you have to provoke me like that? So many tales of loves lost. Is it any wonder I'm still on seven more years probation on my way to 50?
Ummm. Whaddid Leader say?
Edited by Feb 17, 2003 8:13 am
Message from Buzzard: 
VIKINGS WIN SUPER BOWL
(Or, use your own team and event.)
Leader - Feb 17, 2003 9:32 pm (#2892 of 2927)
Edited by Feb 17, 2003 1:33 pm
Boomer...did you mean to imply that once women reach the age of 50 they're no longer capable of moaning for you? :)
Edited by Feb 17, 2003 2:37 pm
Maybe it's me who can't induce their moans anymore. I'm tired already! Slightly used. Make that worn out.
The Vikings won the Super Bowl? Can't prove it by me. I haven't had any cable TV since December 8th and not going to get it back until some time in April. Had no idea the Vikings made a comeback and went to the Super Bowl. Heavens to Mergatroid!!!
Who used to say that: "heavens to mergatroid"? Remember "yowzah, yowza, yowza"? How about "Parkyakarkus"? "holy mackral Andy"? Baron Munchausen, the great liar?
Pyment - Feb 19, 2003 2:43 pm (#2895 of 2927)
for your reading pleasure:
TFY features including:
DT Rankings:
http://nfldraft.theinsiders.com/2/94056.html
DE Rankings:
http://nfldraft.theinsiders.com/2/93880.html
OLB Rankings:
http://nfldraft.theinsiders.com/2/93749.html
MLB Rankings:
http://nfldraft.theinsiders.com/2/93632.html
Centers:
http://nfldraft.theinsiders.com/2/72862.html
top 100:
http://nfldraft.theinsiders.com/3/Top100.html
APSS scouting service:
http://www.allproscouting.com/hiddengems.html
A list of combine invitees from GBN:
http://www.gbnreport.com/combinesroster.htm
Boomer's top 5 OT's
http://www.boomersdraft.com/2003/03profiles-OT.html
and his rumors page:
http://www.boomersdraft.com/2003/Hearing.html
TBF's draft muncher is an interesting compilation of mocks to look at:
http://www.brownstng.com/browns/features/MockDraftMuncher/2003/1teampicks.asp
A report on Georgia's draft hopefuls at the combine Bailey running a 4.28/40???):
http://georgia.theinsiders.com/2/93769.html
nfl.com has articles on the combine:
Gil Brandt's top 15:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/6196842
His precombine offense rankings:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/6184314
and defense:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/6186282
Combine still critical to evaluating talent:
http://www.nfl.com/insider/story/6197027
Catching up with ... Marques Anderson (he likes Chaucer?)
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/6197365
Prisco's top 32:
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/6194983
CBS' rumor mill:
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/6132634
An Article on Grossman:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1510667.html
Thanks. Some interesting stuff there.
- Feb 19, 2003 5:34 pm (#2897 of 2927)
Py -
Great stuff, man. I've been looking for some mock drafts.
I really don't see us taking a QB in the 1st round. I'm still hoping that E.J. Henderson will be around when we pick at #29.
E!
I just posted Patty's latest mock draft to her site on PackerChatters.com.
Thanks, Mark.
Inside the Packers has some interesting comments on the UFA's Holliday, Hunt and Williams. First, they say that S/H do not regard any of them as a "must' signing. The reasons vary.
The team became soured on Holliday, ironically, after his 5 sack game. Before that, they blamed lack of production on his injuries. They felt that nobody can get 5 sacks if you're not healthy and concluded that Holliday was healthy. When Holliday had niothing of significance after that game, they soured on him.
The Hunt story is much as Patty has preached on - lack of full-time effort.
For Williams it is his age of 30. History has show them the folly oof paying big momey for a playe of that age, unless it is a short-term contract.
VIKINGS WIN SUPER BOWL ...
Vikings suck a meatpackers butt! Lima-Mike-Alpha!
- Feb 20, 2003 11:56 pm (#2902 of 2927)
Edited by Feb 20, 2003 3:56 pm
OK, I'm changing gears here, but why in the hell did the Milwaukee Bucks trade Ray Allen to the Seattle Supersonics for Gary Payton?!?! Is Herb Kohl out of his friggin' mind?! Payton's a FA-to-be playing out his contract, so his stay in Milwaukee is sure to be short and undistinguished. George Karl must be feeling pretty comfy, though - all he needs now is Shawn Kemp (minus 40 pounds) and lots of rain and it'll be just like Seattle all over again.
E!
Edited by Feb 21, 2003 2:45 pm
I think I never mentioned. The winners of the pool were Boomer, Agrich, Dorf, LMG, and me. Here's what I decided.
The prize - a NFL Family Cookbook - was the same prize LMG was giving out in his pool, so I didn't send him one. Seemed completely redundent. I had already disqualified myself. I had sent Dorf a prize a while ago (a somewhat better prize, IMHO), so I decided to neglect him. Besides, when would he ever use it? He's got all those gorgous chicks on his sailboat, I'm sure they cook for him.
That left Boomer, with his ground-breaking prediction of 16-0, and Agrich, with the claim that having one two years in a row, he deserved the prize. Both claims seemed good to me, so I bought another book and sent them each one.
Btw, Favre is married to a very cute woman who's a lousy cook.
I hope that book has some good Spam recipes in it. Mmmmm. Mmmmmm.
Edited by Feb 22, 2003 6:15 pm
WHAT!?!?!? I DIDN'T WIN?!?!?
So,,, you wait till I am out of the country and pull this one huh Mark,,, well,,, all i can say is,,,
SHAM!!! SHAM I SAY!!!
Edited by Feb 22, 2003 8:29 pm
I'll loan ACL a vowel...
Here's an "E" for you.
It's shame...shame...shame.
Yes, 'tis a shame. A lesson for you Austin. Sometimes one has to cheat and connive to achieve a desired result. It's obvious Mark is street smart.
I bid 16-0 and won? Wonders never cease.
As of the 21st, a major day in my life, I made a vow to lose weight. That despite the fact that I can't go to Korea or the Philippines to take advantage of their weight loss programs.
Just what I need...a cookbook!!!
Oh yeah, almost forgot some news of a recent event that took place two door away from me last weekend. A couple on the corner, with about five or six kids, decided finally to get married. And did they ever. Dawg style.
I was invited to the party, but didn't have the required admission. A Harley Davidson bike.
I should have taken a picture. About 40 - 50 Harleys parked in our cul-de-sac. Not a speck of dust on any of them. What a sight. The bride mounted the husband, the bike, the bike...and with her short bridal veil trailing the who gang (and I mean gang) drove off to the ceremony. Returned a couple hours later and again filled our circle with bikes.
One especially beautiful shiny red Harley was driven by a Sweet Young Thing with a beautiful little tush. I conjured up evil thoughts of what that bike was doing to her special parts as she revved the engine. Once a dirty old man, always a dirty old man. Favorite Wife is always right, I swear!!!
Anyways, it wasn't only her that got my attention. I thought of a few of you biker types (road hawgers)and thought it would be cool if you could have been out front to witness the spectacle. To be noted also...Sweet Young Thing was in the minority. Most were 40'ish and up and BIG people. Not beautiful people either...mean looking. The women too! Not the folks you'd want to run into in a dark alley.
Only one of the group wore a helmet and gloves and proper footwear.
Edited by Feb 23, 2003 1:07 am
ACL: Of course you won. Your prize was delivered to the bull across the highway, utilizing my new quantum teleportation device. Remember? You tugged on his tail, and it popped right out.
Clarification please Mark.
Oh, it appears you've already edited the word in question. I thought you had poped out. I was wondering if you meant either pooped out or popped out, as it now read.
Disregard this post.
Pyment - Feb 23, 2003 3:58 pm (#2910 of 2927)
Edited by Feb 23, 2003 8:00 am
Draft and combine stuff:
APSS:
Updated mock has Pierce slide to us:
http://www.allproscouting.com/mockdraft03.html
Terry Pierce: 251-pounds, 28 reps
Rashean Mathis: 203-pounds, 22 reps
Marcus Trufant: 199-pounds
Tyrone Calico: 223-pounds
Nick Barnett: 236-pounds, 32 reps(need to confirm)
Norman LeJeune: 6005, 201, 13 reps
Sean Mahan-OG-Notre Dame: 311-pounds, 5.11/40, 30 reps.
Pisa Tinoisamoa-LB-Hawaii: 6002, 231-pounds, 19 reps
With the CB's running on Monday, I have confirmed through various sources that Washington State CB Marcus Trufant, Oklahoma CB Andre Woolfolk, Kansas State CB Terence Newman, and Bethune-Cookman CB/FS Rashean Mathis all plan on running for scouts in Indy. Newman is feeling pressure from Trufant and both are said to be running 4.27-4.35 in the forty in pre-combine training. Mathis is said to have run a 4.30 in his pre-combine training, while Andre Woolfolk is running consistent 4.4's. It should make for an interesting day with the four top rated players at the position ALL working out for scouts.
Marcus Trufant: 11 reps
Tim Provost-OT-San Jose State: 21 reps, 301-pounds, 28.5" Vertical, 8'7" Long jump
Kerry Carter: 238-pounds, 7% body fat, 20 reps, 36.5" Vert, 9'10" long jump
Daniel Kooistra: 5.13 forty, 317-pounds
William Joseph 35" arms and did 29 reps of 225.
James Lee-DT-Oregon State: 4.91/40
Matt Leonard-DT-Stanford: 4.95/40
Wayne Hunter: 31" vertical
Tony Pashos: 337-pounds, 38 reps
Doug Gabriel: 6022, 214-pounds
DeJuan Groce: 5095, 192-pounds
Chaun Thompson-LB-West Texas A&M: 6017, 240: is scheduled to lift tomorrow at 7am and is being worked out as a ILB.
Eric Manning: 5.03/40
Anthony Adams: 5115, 299, 5.08/40
Tyler Brayton: 6061, 277, 4.67/40
Nick Burley: 6035, 243, 26 reps, 4.83/40
Aubrayo Franklin-DT-Tennessee: 6014, 307, 29 reps
Jamaal Green: 6016, 272, 27 reps
Brandon Green-DE-Rice: 6023, 267, 19 reps, 4.74/40
Omari Hand: 6036, 267, 34 reps
Aaron Hunt: 6024, 267, 24 reps, 4.73/40
Alonzo Jackson: 6040, 266, 14 reps
Chris Kelsay: 6043, 273, 23 reps, 4.68 and 4.77
Jerome McDougle: 6020, 264, 4.66/40
Clint Mitchell-DE-Florida: 6067, 257, 16 reps, 4.88 and 4.93
Langston Moore: 6010, 303, 29 reps
Calvin Pace: 4.77/40, 33" Vertical
Antwan Peek: 37" vertical
Shurron Pierson: 4.61/40
Ian Scott: 6023, 312, 28 reps, 5.18/40
Matthew Walters: 6044, 272, 30 reps
DeWayne White: 6021, 273, 22 reps, 33.5" vertical
Jimmy Wilkerson: 6027. 271, 29 reps, 4.90/40
Kevin Williams: 6047, 304, 4.97/40
Much more on the way!
-Matt Gambill
TFY:
OLB Barnett shows up with more heft than predicte as do Pisa Tinoisamoa and LaMarcus McDonald. Rien Long has a poor workout. Tyler brayton burns a 4.7/40 however the question on him is strength. John Sullivan and Andrew Williams had good workouts:
http://nfldraft.theinsiders.com/2/94982.html
http://nfldraft.theinsiders.com/2/95055.html
We just talked to Kansas St. LB Terry Pierce and here's a few tidbits:
- Confirmed he measured in at 6'1 3/4/251.
- His preference is to play inside in the pros but he would be fine if he had to play outside.
- Has interviewed with the Chiefs, Panthers, Steelers, and Colts.
Post Time 8:48 PM--LB ( first group )
Chaun Thomas - West Texas A&M: Best session of all, completed 29 reps.
Keyon Whiteside - Tennessee: 27 Reps at the press, trying to impress.
E.J. Henderson -Maryland: Lacked at the bench press, could only complete 20
DB
Colin Branch - Stanford: Shows strength with 22 reps on bench press.
Todd Johnson - Florida: 20 reps on the bench
Charles Drake - Michigan: 20 reps on bench
------------------------
My own comments:
Rumors flying include: the Packers moving up in the second, down in the first, Taking a QB, DT, or LB in round 1, 2, or 3. Trying to aquire another 2nd round pick. I have gone through lists of who the top picks are interviewing with at the combine. None are listing the Packers. Gesser wants to play in GB as his grandfather did (I think), but he hasn't talked to GB either. 60 interviews and we haven't talked to anyone.
And TFY can't get Thompson's name right.
This is the silly season.
The only confirmed reports are of the Packers allowing Glenn to shop for a trade.
http://www.packersnews.com/archives/news/pack_8840457.shtml
Mark~~~
Well,,, all right then... As long as I got what I deserved,,, thats all I was asking... Will pull on Bull tomorrow,,, busy day bleaching my underwear today...
Buzzard - Feb 24, 2003 2:07 pm (#2912 of 2927)
Edited by Feb 24, 2003 6:08 am
League considers 'Warren Sapp' rule
Looks like Warren's hit maybe wasn't so "ok" after all...
http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/...i/20030223.html
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The NFL competition committee is considering a "Warren Sapp rule," which would outlaw vicious hits away from the play during a return. And even though players likely will end up being fined and suspended if the rule passes, the NFL Players Association is pushing the competition committee to ratify the rule.
The NFLPA stance is that such hits should not be a part of the game because it doesn't want players taking unnecessary shots at one another that could shorten careers and diminish the long-term health of players. . .
Found this on another site but seeing as I dont have an account with Sporting News I can provide no further information. Sounds interesting though.
Buzzard - Feb 24, 2003 7:06 pm (#2913 of 2927)
Edited by Feb 24, 2003 11:07 am
Should be a better link
http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dan_pompei/20030223.html
The book is excellent, Mark. Thanks much. This summer I'll make a recipe out of it and send helpings to everyone. Ground rate, of course, so I can't guarantee how good it will be when it arrives.
That talk about us drafting Rex Grossman looks even more foolish now that some say his stock is up to where he is almost on a par with Leftwich and liable to go in the Top 10. No way on earth we get that high from 29 even if we wanted to.
The only way shopping Glenn makes any sense is if we're really loathe to give him that $500k roster bonus a few days from now. I mean, there is no chance of us getting any better than a late-round pick for him. No chance. Unless somebody was actually offering a 3rd, which seems impossible to me, I'd rather have him on the team next year. In fairness to us, at the time we traded for him we hadn't drafted Walker and had no idea that Driver would emerge the way he did, so I'll still defend the deal for him a year ago.
This is going to be a wild free agency around the NFL. I hope we're 1) players and 2) smart about it.
Me and ACL and Boomer went to a seminar. Apparently this cartoonist was there, too: 
???
Over my head...
ACL - PLEASE explain what it is that Mark is saying.
Buzzard - Feb 25, 2003 6:10 pm (#2917 of 2927)
Some of you may enjoy this more than others.
Trucker vs. lawyer
A truck driver used to amuse himself by running over lawyers he would see walking down the side of the road. Every time he would see a lawyer walking along the road, he would swerve to hit him, and there would be a loud "THUMP" and then he would swerve back on the road.
One day, as the truck driver was driving along he saw a preacher hitch hiking. He thought he would do a good turn and pulled the truck over.
He asked the preacher, "Where are you going, Pastor?".
"I"m going to the church 5 miles down the road," replied the priest.
"No problem, Pastor! I"ll give you a lift. Climb in the truck."
The happy preacher climbed into the passenger seat and the truck driver continued down the road.
Suddenly the truck driver saw a lawyer walking down the road and instinctively he swerved to hit him. But then he remembered there was a preacher in the truck with him, so at the last minute he swerved back to the road, narrowly missing the lawyer. Even though he was certain he missed the lawyer, he still heard a loud "THUD." Not understanding where the noise came from he glanced in his mirrors and when he didn"t see anything, he turned to the preacher and said,
"I"m sorry Pastor. I almost hit that lawyer."
"That"s okay," replied the preacher. "I got him with the door."
- Feb 25, 2003 8:02 pm (#2918 of 2927)
Nyuk, Nyuk! My dad is a Lutheran Minister, and that's one of his all-time favorites!
E!
Edited by Feb 26, 2003 10:55 am
From Packers.com:
The Green Bay Packers will have two of their five preseason games carried on national television this year.
Wednesday, the NFL released the preseason national TV schedule, which indicated that the Packers' preseason contest against the Cleveland Browns will be carried by CBS. That's in addition to the previously-announced ABC coverage of the Pro Football Hall of Fame Game, which features the Packers against the Kansas City Chiefs.
The Packers will meet the Browns in a 7 p.m. CT kickoff, Friday, August 15, at Cleveland Browns Stadium.
The Hall of Fame Game in Canton, Ohio, is Monday, August 4 at 7 p.m. CT.
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers, who will face the New York Jets in the American Bowl in Tokyo, Japan, are the only team other than the Packers with two nationally-televised preseason games.
The Packers' three other preseason games will be carried on statewide TV. Exact dates and times for those games will be determined in the next few weeks.
CBS Sports and Green Bay's WFRV-TV in conjunction with Milwaukee's WTMJ-TV will televise the remaining three games over an expanded, eight-station network throughout the state of Wisconsin and Upper Michigan, with CBS network production, personnel and the latest network quality technology.
In addition to WFRV-TV and WTMJ-TV, the games will be televised over WKOW/ABC, Madison, Wis.; WAOW/ABC, Wausau/Rhinelander, Wis.; WXOW/ABC, La Crosse, Wis.; WQOW/ABC, Eau Claire; WYOW/ABC, Eagle River, Wis.; and WJMN/CBS, Marquette, Mich.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
WSJ says that the Packershave interviewed Ragone, Boller, Grossman and Romo. Looks like a mid-round QB choice is possible.
Thanks for the links and ifo, PY. There is a lot of good info on Patty's draft board.
- Feb 26, 2003 7:58 pm (#2921 of 2927)
What's the address to Patty's?
E!
Buzzard - Feb 26, 2003 11:44 pm (#2922 of 2927)
Heres a link to it if I can post that here.
http://pub64.ezboard.com/fpackerchattersforumfrm1
Buzzard - Feb 27, 2003 12:14 am (#2923 of 2927)
Well well well. Pack sending Nall to NFLE to get some playing time. Last minute decision and I am beginning to wonder what is going on. I sure wish they trusted me more and would tell me what their plans are. I wouldn't tell anyone what I knew.
http://www.packers.com/news/releases/2003/02/26/2/index.phtml
- Feb 27, 2003 3:51 pm (#2924 of 2927)
I just saw the Packers scheduled opponents for next year and it isn't pretty. Next year's schedule looks to be one of the most brutal in the league. The road games are killers.
Road games: Arizona, St. Louis, Oakland, San Diego, Tampa Bay
Home games: San Francisco, Seattle, Denver, Kansas City, Philadelphia
Then of course there's also the divisional schedule with the usual suspects... Vikings, Lions, and DA Bears.
Why do we have to play AT Tampa again?? I'm not too worried about Arizona. St. Louis should bounce back and they are tough in their dome and we all know how the Pack sucks in domes. San Diego is dangerous and then of course, the Raiders are never a picnic. It's interesting that we have to play the two Superbowl participants on the road.
Nall is assigned to the Scottish Claymores. The only other QB's that they have are Chris Brown and Keon Moore, so Nall should get some playing time.
Edited by Feb 27, 2003 2:34 pm
Ok,,, I know,,, I know,,, I am on detention already for "Non Football Post" but,,, this is worth getting in more trouble!!! I LAUGHED,,, OUT LOUD at LEAST 7 times while reading this!!! I swear,,, this could have been something I did!!!
here is the original thread with comments almost as funny... 8^)
BLIMP!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Last week while travelling I stopped at a Zany Brainy store and saw that they had a blimp for sale. It's called Airship Earth, and it's a great big balloon with a map of the Earth on it, and two propellors hanging from the bottom. You blow up the balloon with helium put batteries in it, and you have a radio controll indoor blimp.
I'd seen these things for sale in Sharper Image catalogs for $60-$75. At Zany Brainy it was on clearance for $15. What a deal!
Last night my wife was playing tennis and it was just my daughter and I at home. I bought a small helium tank from a party store, and last night we put the blimp together.
Let me tell you, it's quite a blimp. It's huge. The balloon has like a 3 ft diameter.
We blew it up with the tank attacched the gondola with the propellors, and put in batteries.
Then we balanced the blimp for neutral bouyancy with this putty that came with it, so it hangs in the air by itself neither rising nor falling.
It was easy and fun, and then I blew up another balloon and made Mickey Mouse helium voices for my daughter.
My three year old girl loved it. We flew the blimp all over the house, terrorized the dog, attacked the fish tank, and the controls were so easy my daughter could fly.
Let's face it, blimps are fun.
Alas, the fun had to end and my daughter had to go to sleep. I left the blimp floating in my office downstairs, my wife came home, and we went to bed, and slept the sleep of the righteous.
At this point it is important to know that my house has central heating. I have it configured to blow hot air out on the ground floor and take it in at the second floor to take advantage of the fact that heat rises.
The blimp which was up until this moment a fun toy here embarked on a career of evil. Using the artificial convection of my central heating, the blimp stealthily departed my office. It moved silently through the living and drifted to the staircase. Gliding wraithlike over the staircase it then entered the bedroom where my wife and I lay sleeping peacefully.
Running silently, and gliding six feet or so above the ground on invisible and tiny air currects it approached the bed.
In spite of it's noiseless passage, or perhaps because of it, I awoke. That doesn't really say it properly. Let me try again.
I awoke, the way you awake at 2:00 AM when your sleeping senses suddenly tell you without reason that the forces of evil on converging on you.
That still doesn't do it. Let me try one more time.
I awoke the way you awake when you suddenly know that there is a large levitating sinister presence hovering towards you with menacing intent through the maligant darkness.
Now sometimes I do wake up in the middle of the night thinking that there are large sinister and menacing things floating out of the darkness to do me and mine evil. Usually I open my eyes, look and listen carefully, decide it was a false alarm, and go back to sleep.
So, the fact that I awoke in such a manner was not all that unusual.
On this occasion I awoke to the sense that there was a large menacing presence approaching me silently out of the gloom, so I opened my eyes, and there it was! A LARGE SILENT MENACING PRESENCE WAS APPROACHING ME OUT OF THE GLOOM, AND IT COULD FLY!!!
Somewhere in the control room of my mind a fat little dwarf in a security outfit was paging through a Penthouse while smoking a cigar with his feet up on the table, watching the security monitors of my brain with his peripheral vision. Suddenly he saw the LARGE SILENT SINSITER MENACING FLOATING PRESENCE coming at me, and he pulled every panic switch and hit every alarm that my body has. A full decade's allotment of adrenaline was dumped into my bloodstream all at once. My metabolism went from "restful sleep mode" to HOLY SHIT! FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE OR DIE!!!! mode" in a nanosecond. My heart went from twenty something beats per minute to about 240 even faster.
I always knew this was going to happen. I always knew that skepticism and science were mere psychological decorations and vanities. Deep in our alligator brains we all know that the world is just chock full of evil and monsters and sinister forces aligned against us, and it is only a matter of time until they show up. Evolution know this, too. It knows what to do when the silent terror comes at you from out of the dark.
When 50 million years worth of evolutionary survival instinct hits you all at once flat in the gut at 200 mph it is not a pleasant sensation.
Without volition I screamed my battle cry (which is indistinguishable to the sound a little girl makes when you drop a spider down her dress (not that I'd know what that sounds like,) and lept out of bed in my underwear.
I struck the approaching menace with all my strength and almost fell over at the total lack of resistance that a helium balloon offers when you punch the living shit out of it with all the stength that sudden middle of the night terror produces.
It's trajectory took it straight into the ceiling fan which whipped it about the room at terrifying velocity.
Seeking a weapon, I ripped the alarm clock out of its plug and hurled it at the now High Velocity Menacing presence (breaking the clock and putting a nice hole in the wall.)
Somehow at this moment I suddenly realized that I was fighting the blimp, and not a monster. It might have been funny if I didn't truly and actually feel like I was having a legitimate heart-attack.
On quivering legs I went to the bathroom and literally gagged into the toilet while shaking uncontrollably with the shock of the reaction I'd had.
Unbeleivably, both my wife and daughter had completely slept through the incident. When I decided that I wasn't having a heart attack after all I went back into the bedroom and found the blimp which had somehow survived the incident.
I took it to the walk in closet and released it inside where it floated around with the air currents released from the vents in there. I closed the door, this sealing it in, and went back to bed. About 500 years later I fell asleep.
At about 7 am my wife awoke. She had been playing tennis and wasn't aware that we have assembled the blimp the previous evening, and that is was now floating around the the walk-in closet that she approached.
The dyndamic between the existing air currents of the closet and the suction caused by opening the door was just enough to give the blimp the appearance of an Evil Sinister Menace flying straight towards her.
This time the blimp did not survive the encounter, nor almost, did I, as I had to explain to my very angry spouse what motivated me to hide an evil lurking presence in the closet for her to find at 7 am.
I can order replacement balloons on the internet but I don't think I will.
Some blimps are better off dead.
Edited by Feb 28, 2003 8:25 pm
EZ 6 is filled to capacity.
There's now an EZ 7
here.
End Zone VI